MLB Salary Cap - Debating the Merits E-mail
Written by MC3 Sports Media   
Thursday, 04 March 2010 00:00

baseblogdebFollow us as each week as our best writers from around the Bloguin Network take aim at each other and square off on anything and everything baseball from "who was better, Mays or Mantle" to "Should MLB have a salary cap?"

Pick a side and agree or disagree. Take part in the debate by posting a comment giving your own opinion. There are no holds barred and nothing is held back in the
"The Great Bloguin Baseball Debate."

Today's Debaters are:

Danny Hobrock, Around the Horn Baseball

Larry Granillo, Wezen-ball.com

Today's Topic is: Should MLB have a Salary Cap?

Editors Note: Even with steroids at the forefront, there has been perhaps no bigger topic debated by baseball fans across the country these past few years than that of the prospects for a MLB Salary Cap.

While it's virtually universally agreed upon that a Salary Cap will never be put in place because the MLBPA will never allow it as part of its CBA, that doesn't stop supporters of a cap (especially those from small market teams) from lobbying for it.

There are legitimate arguments for both sides and more than anything, that's what fuels the debate. We've taken our own poll here at Around the Horn Baseball, and as of the posting of this article, almost 1,300 votes have been cast with about 79% of the voters in favor of a Salary Cap or something similar. (You can vote yourself in the right sidebar).

With those thoughts as the backdrop, let's get on with it as Larry Granillo and Danny Hobrock roll up their sleeves and delve into the Salary Cap issue in this edition of The Great Bloguin Baseball Debate.

salarycapMLB SHOULD have a Salary Cap

By Danny Hobrock, Around the Horn Baseball: Danny is a sports journalist primarily covering college football and professional baseball. His work for Around the Horn Baseball and Xtra Point Football has garnered national attention and is critically acclaimed. Danny is the former editor of a political and current events website and the current editor of college football content for Xtra Point Football.

Arguing in favor of a salary cap is an almost unwinnable position. Not because baseball doesn't need one, but because it's unlikely that it'll ever come to fruition in the near or distant future. Still, that doesn't change the fact that baseball should implement a salary cap to create parity, improve the fairness of the game and draw in smaller market fans.

A salary cap would not be the end to the free market as we know it

I can already hear the screaming: "This is America!!!" "Commie!!!" "Free market!!" "Random anti-socialism remark!!!"

Proponents of the free market argument point out that an owner who wants to pay Barry Zito $126 million over 7 years should damn well be allowed to do so. It's their right as an American citizen. They argue that there should be no limit to the amount of money a team can spend on a player's salary in our free market society.

But competition laws have been in existence since Roman times. In the United States, anti-trust laws work to preserve marketplace competition. Baseball, of course, is for some reason exempt from antitrust laws because the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1922 that baseball was not an interstate affair and that traveling from one state to another was "a mere incidence, and not the essential thing," according to Justice Oliver Holmes, Jr. Therefore, it was ruled that baseball is exempt from the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1914. Courts have upheld the decision since the ruling.

The basic idea behind the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1914 was to prevent unfair business acts that create an unfair marketplace such as monopolizing. Not that any team has created a monopoly in MLB, not even the Yankees. There is a clear disparity between the 30 teams.

And with such a large disparity comes unfair advantages for big spenders.

Forbes' review of Major League Baseball in April of 2009 found that team values increased overall by an average of 1%, overall league revenue increased 5.5% and operating income rose by 1.8% the previous year. It also found that "overall results are skewed by a handful of teams with great stadiums and cable television deals. Business is tough: Ten franchises saw their values decline during the past year, the most since 2004, and many teams are having a more difficult time selling premium seating, sponsorships and meeting debt obligations because of the bad economy. The net result is a widening gap between the teams at the top and the ones at the bottom."

With smaller value, less ticket sales, smaller television audiences and, therefore, less sponsorship and advertising revenue, "teams at the bottom" cannot afford to pay a player like the Yankees or Red Sox.

Neil deMause, in Baseball Between the Numbers: Why Everything You Know About the Game is Wrong, brings up an interesting point. From a business standpoint, a team will not pay a player more money than they think he will bring in terms of ticket sales, concessions, souvenirs, etc. In a small market like Kansas City or Milwaukee, an Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, C.C. Sabathia, etc. will not be able to bring in as much money as they would in New York, Boston, Los Angeles and other large markets simply because of the size of the market. For smaller market teams, it just doesn't make much sense to buy players the way large market teams do.

MLB lacks parity

yankeestwinsIn 2009 the Yankees had an opening day payroll $201,449,189 according to a list created by USAToday.com. They won the World Series.

Of course, as we all know, big spending does not necessarily translate into championships.

The next biggest spender, according to the list, was their New York counterpart over in Queens. The Mets opened their 2009 season with a payroll of $149,373,987. The Mets finished 2009 in 4th place in the NL East with a 70-92 record. But just because the Mets cannot effectively spend their money doesn't mean that there isn't a trend between spending big and making the postseason.

Of the teams with the 10 highest payrolls, half made the postseason. (Detroit, 5th highest payroll, finished 1 game behind Minnesota, 24th highest payroll, in the AL Central and missed the playoffs.)

Only one team among the 10 lowest payrolls made the postseason in 2009 (Minnesota).

Consider there's eight playoff teams and only two came from the bottom half of the salary list (25%) and six came from the top half (75%) and there's a clear trend here. But it's hard to come to a conclusion by examining just one season.

So let's go back to 1995 before team payrolls reached even $50 million. This was the year the DVD was first announced and when eBay first hit the Internet. MLB teams played 144 games in 1995 instead of 162 because of the carryover from 1994's strike, but it's enough to work with. It was also the first year of the extended 8 team playoff, not counting 1981's strike shortened season, which gives us stability in our sample size.

That gives us a nice round 15 seasons to work with and 120 playoff teams overall. 73 of the 120 playoff teams had team payrolls at the beginning of the season in the top 10 of the league. That's roughly 61% of all playoff teams. 93 of the 120 had team payrolls at the beginning of the season in the top half of the league. That's 77.5% of all playoff teams.

Of our 15 year sample size, 14 out of the 15 World Series Champions had a team salary at the beginning of the season that ranked in the top half of all teams. The lone exception was the 2003 Florida Marlins who, with a team salary of $48,750,000, ranked 25th on the list. 10 of the 15 WS Champs ranked in the top 10 in team salary, while 8 of the 15 WS Champs ranked in the top 5.

You call that parity?

Can teams buy championships?

27thchampionshipThe success of smaller market teams in recent years has added fuel to the anti-salary cap side. The Devil Rays, Rockies and Marlins have all made World Series appearances (Florida won) last decade despite team payrolls in the bottom half of the league.

Similarly, the lack of success by big spenders like the Mets and inconsistent success of teams like the Cubs and Mariners has also lent support to the anti-salary cap side.

If you don't count the Yankees, teams who won the World Series increased their payroll by an average of +16.28% from the previous year. The Marlins increased their payroll by 58.76% between 1996 and their world championship year of 1997, while the then-Anaheim Angels increased payroll by 29.30% from 2001 to their world championship year of 2002.

Upon entering the league in 1998, the Arizona Diamondbacks quickly catapulted into the ranks of top ten team payrolls from 1999 to 2003, finishing with a winning record each season, making the playoffs in three of the five seasons and winning the 2001 World Series. Since falling out of the top ten team payrolls they've finished with a losing record in four of six seasons and made the playoffs just once.

Changing Winds?

The Pittsburgh Pirates and the Kansas City Royals have finished in the bottom ten of team payrolls in all but two years of our 15 season sample (Pittsburgh had the 19th highest team payroll in 2003 and the 18th highest in 2001). They have not made the playoffs since the postseason was extended to eight teams.

The Tampa Bay Devil Rays (now just the Rays) entered the league the same year as the Diamondbacks and have found themselves in the bottom ten of team payrolls in every year but two. Their brief money spending efforts did them little good in 2000 (10th highest payroll) and 2001 (19th highest payroll) and they did not post a winning record until 2008 when they went to the World Series with the second lowest payroll in the MLB.

The Florida Marlins are constantly looked at as a low payroll team who has translated thriftiness into success, or at least winning records. The Marlins have had the lowest team payroll for the last two seasons, but have managed a winning record in both years and even competed for the postseason.

With a salary cap in place, teams would take the approach of the Marlins and Rays more often in developing players in their farm systems instead of relying on free agency and trades.

Take the NFL. Free agency and trading is not dead, but teams rely more on building through the draft than in the MLB and there is much greater parity in the league. It would be interesting to see how some teams fare without the option to simply outbid their competition for top tier talent.

Small Market Crowds

One of the obvious benefits and most argued points among salary cap supporters is the impact it would likely have on small market teams. With greater parity, clubs like the Marlins, Royals, A's, Rays, etc. would theoretically win more games and have a greater chance of making the postseason. Of course, factors such as scouting, development, coaching and management would also play a role.

More wins and postseason appearances would then theoretically bring more fans to the ballpark, increasing revenues for small market clubs. That's not even mentioning the added revenue that a postseason appearance would bring.

One example of the correlation between postseason appearances and attendance comes from the New York Yankees. The capacity of old Yankee Stadium was 57,545 in 1980 and stayed that way through 2007. During the Yankees' 13 year playoff drought from 1982 to 1994, average attendance was 26,892 per game. (1994 was the strike-shortened season and the Yankees were on their way to making the postseason before the strike.) During their 13 year playoff streak from 1995 to 2007, average attendance was 40,572.

Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Phillies, Dodgers and other large market teams have a geographic advantage over small market clubs in terms of fan base. A strong fan base and park attendance brings in revenue from ticket sales, concessions, souvenirs, etc.

Last year, not one of the teams that ranked in the bottom half of the attendance report made the playoffs. All eight teams came from the top half of the report. A salary cap would lessen the gap between teams in terms of on-the-field talent and overall team value, which would theoretically further reduce the disparity in talent.

Closing Statement

As we sit now, some teams just cannot compete with the Yankees and Red Sox of the league. When small market teams draft well and develop players into league leaders and perennial all-stars, they are swept away by big market teams.

Back to the Marlins. In 2008, the Marlins signed superstar Hanley Ramirez to a 6 year $70 million contract extension through 2014. But consider how much of a rarity that is for a team who has seen so many players they drafted, brought up and/or developed early in their career fall to free agency or traded away. In no particular order: Trevor Hoffman, Rob Nenn, Livan Hernandez, Edgar Renteria, Charles Johnson, Brad Penny, Derrek Lee, A.J. Burnett, Josh Beckett, Miguel Cabrera, Dontrelle Willis, etc.

Other teams have lost as many players, but most big market teams don't have to jettison their best players for "business reasons".

Some teams would choose not to take advantage of the cap and would open the season with a team payroll of far less than what they are allowed. But a salary cap would create the opportunity for teams to compete and would be a huge first step in preventing big market teams from creating an unfair marketplace. - Danny Hobrock, Around the Horn Baseball

stadiummoneyMLB SHOULD NOT have a Salary Cap

By Larry Granillo, Wezen-ball.com: "Written by a devoted fan of the game, Wezen-Ball.com uses some do-it-yourself statistical analysis and various contemporary accounts (including newspapers and magazines) to look at the game of baseball, both past and present - and, whenever possible, at where the two meet. The occasional off-the-wall post is not unheard of."

In July 2008, Brewers GM Doug Melvin rolled the dice and traded the club's top prospect, Matt LaPorta, to the Indians for ace and impending-free agent CC Sabathia. The gamble paid off, and the Brewers were able to ride CC to the Wild Card berth and their first trip to the playoffs in over 25 years. The Brewers lost in the first round to the eventual-World Champions, but their goal of making the playoffs had been met. It was an exciting summer to be a Brewers fan.

But we knew it couldn't last. With CC's impending free agency, there was very little hope that the Brewers would be able to lock him up. Sure, there were the wide-eyed optimists who tried to convince themselves that the playoff run, the fun-loving group of guys, and CC's natural affinity for a smaller market would push him to stay in Milwaukee, but they were certainly the exception. It was pretty widely accepted, in Milwaukee and around the country, that the Bewers would have no chance at signing the ace. When he finally did file for free agency, the Brewers offered the young stud a five-year, $100 million contract. He would eventually accept a seven year, $160 million contract, with a very favorable opt-out clause, from the Yankees. As many said, the Brewers never had a chance. Their $100 million offer was so large for them - and so small compared to the Yanks' offer - that consensus seems to be that it was merely a token offer from the Brewers. (In fact, owner Mark Attanasio is still having to defend himself against such claims today.)

The Brewers face a similar situation next year, when Prince Fielder becomes eligible for free agency. In the 2008 off-season, he and the club reached an $18 million agreement that would keep him out of arbitration for two years. That contract runs out this year, and he will face arbitration for the first and only time this winter - unless a deal can be reached. Seeing as how Prince is a Scott Boras client, and considering the big dollars that he is likely to receive (think Mark Teixeira or Matt Holliday money), it seems all but certain that he will be wearing a different uniform in 2012. The Brewers, then, will have to make a decision on what to do with Prince in the next two years: ride him and his MVP-caliber bat all the way to free agency and hope for the playoffs; trade him sometime in 2011, before he reaches free agency; or trade him even sooner, in 2010, when his contract situation might garner the club more value. I'm already on record about how I would treat this situation.

There are many, though, especially in a "small market" like Milwaukee, who seem to think that a salary cap would solve this problem. When everyone is on a level-playing field with what they can offer a player, then the huge advantages enjoyed by a team like the Yankees will disappear and players like Prince will be more inclined to stay with the "small market" club he grew up in.That, however, is just not so. A salary cap would not fix this, or similar situations, and would not be baseball's magic potion of parity.

Where do you set the cap?

In 2009, the median salary level among the 30 MLB teams was $81 million. The Brewers payroll for the year topped out at $80.2 million. And that was a tight $80.2 million, even after back-to-back years of 3-million-plus attendance. The Brewers owner, Mark Attanassio, is already fretting about a possible $85 or $90 million payroll this year. How low, then, would the salary cap have to be set in order for the Brewers to have room for Prince in their budget?

A sensible proposal might be to use the current median salary as the cap limit. If that were the case, the Brewers would already be at their cap, even before giving Prince a shiny, new contract. A higher cap would do nothing for a team like the Brewers since they have no extra money to spend, and a lower cap seems extremely unlikely since it would so unevenly hinder the larger market teams. It would take some sort of concession to the big city clubs, like the ability to go beyond the cap through penalty of luxury tax or something, for that to happen. If that's instituted, then the salary cap will mean very little for the "small market" teams.

Say, for example, that the cap was set at $90 million - high enough that it allows the Brewers to offer Prince a respectable contract while not increasing their payroll a large amount. If that $90 million figure is coupled with a luxury tax, then how would a team like the Brewers be able to compete with the Yankees? A dollar-for-dollar luxury tax (like the NBA's) would effectively wipe out the advantages "small market" clubs gain. In the $90 million proposal above, it would only take the Yankees an additional $55 million in above-cap contracts to get them to their current level. That additional $55 million - two-thirds more than the initial cap - would make a huge difference in this hypothetical world. Teams without those kind of advantages would be back to where they are today, competing on an "unfair ground" with the big market clubs.

But it's not like a salary cap would ever put them on completely fair ground to begin with...

Higher salaries are not the only advantage "large market" teams enjoy

Let's pretend for a moment that the league can come up with some cap level that is reachable by all teams, and that all thirty owners actually start spending the money to reach it. Will the league somehow become competitively balanced overnight? Will the Kansas City's and Milwaukee's and San Diego's of the league all of a sudden gain the power to lure top-level free agents away from the big cities? Of course not. These "small market" clubs, in this hypothetical world, may have as much money to offer as their "large market" counterparts, but that doesn't mean that free agents will see the cities as equal.

Take Johnny Damon, for example. If that $7 million offer that he signed with the Tigers last month had been matched by the Mets or Yankees or Dodgers or Cubs - at the time he agreed to it, of course (we all know how badly he screwed up his initial negotiations) - there is no chance that he would have accepted Detroit's offer. It was even reported as such in the week or so leading to the announcement, with reports saying that Damon's wife "would prefer him to play in a more cosmopolitan city than Detroit".

The fact of the matter is, the "large market" teams have inherent advantages over "small market" teams that go beyond their payroll abilities. Being able to associate yourself with the Yankees or Cubs is much more valuable, in terms of image, appearance fees, endorsements, etc, than being able to associate yourself with, say, the Royals or Expos (just ask Andre Dawson). There's also the confidence that the player might feel in the owner's willingness to keep the payroll up and in the fans' willingness to come to games and buy stuff. Plus, players just might prefer to live in a bustling city like New York instead of Minneapolis.

These are real concerns that free agents will always have, and there is very little that smaller market teams can do about them. Even worse, in a world where the Royals and Yankees can offer identical contracts to top-notch free agents, these lesser details might grow more important. Why would anyone choose Kansas City over New York, all else being equal?

But, you say, at least it'll keep the ticket prices down. Not so fast...

There is no guarantee that ticket/concession/merchandise prices will go down

The hope is that, with a salary cap in place, teams will no longer be able to raise their payroll to exorbitant heights and that, in turn, this will keep ticket prices down. After all, if salaries are controlled from year to year, then teams will no longer be able to claim a sudden increase in payroll as a justification for a price hike. In this ideal world, all price increases will be small and predictable.

But that's just silly. First of all, payroll is only one part of the team's expenses that it hopes to offset by ticket prices. If any of the other costs of the ballclub go up - paying off debt, stadium renovation, travel costs, etc - then ticket prices would also need to be raised. But even if those could be held steady, ticket prices never will.

If a salary cap was passed this year, and the Yankees were forced to lower their payroll to $100 million immediately, would they also slash their seat prices in half? Of course not. Not only would that lower the value and prestige of seats in the New Yankee Stadium in the public's eyes - and yes, any time somethings price is halved, that's the impression it gives the public - but it would also go counter to the laws of supply and demand. If fans are willing to pay the current prices for tickets, why in the world would the team suddenly lower their prices? What incentive would they have? Also, smaller market clubs like the Brewers, who are already pushing the boundaries of their payroll, wouldn't even be able to lower prices without compromising their ability to pay those salaries.

Ticket prices are bound to go up, and even a salary cap won't prevent that.

A salary cap is no panacea

baseballmoneyThe Brewers were a bad team for a long time. Before their 83-79 record in 2007, they hadn't had a winning season since 1992. In 2002, when they finished the season 56-106, the contraction talk that was bandied about that year almost certainly would have fallen on them if not for their close ties to Bud Selig. This was a franchise that was not in good shape. But their fortunes changed, and it wasn't because they suddenly found Scrooge McDuck's money pit. Instead, they became a competitive franchise through good scouting (thanks to Jack Zdureinek), good drafting (also thanks to Daddy Warbucks), good trading and good signings (thanks to the Mustache, Doug Melvin). They drafted Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun in the first round; they traded Scott Podsednik, Carlos Lee, and Francisco Cordero at their peaks; and they signed the likes of Mike Cameron to respectable contracts. Nothing about these moves scream "sexy", but they were all valuable and they were all wise. And moves like these are why the people of Milwaukee have reason to hope for October baseball again.

The Brewers aren't even the best example of this. The Rays made it to the World Series only two years ago after toiling at the bottom of the league, in both wins and salary, for its entire existence. In both 2005 and 2006, the two World Series participants were both middle-of-the-road payroll teams. The Marlins won the World Series in 2003 with one of the lowest payrolls in the league. Anyone saying that it takes big money to win in today's game is just wrong.

It is true that maintaining a winning team is still hard for the smaller market, smaller payroll teams, but that doesn't mean a salary cap is in order. For the reasons listed above - inherent, non-payroll advantages for big city teams and limited payrolls that would keep teams from even reaching the cap figure to begin with - there's no legitimate reason to believe that a salary cap would make a difference. And besides, who ever said that winning should be easy?

There are many other reasons to be wary of implementing a salary cap. I don't think I have to re-hash the arguments that it's unfair to keep players from earning their full, open-market worth, particularly when the difference is pocketed by the owners. And I don't think anyone needs reminding that a large payroll does not necessarily buy in-season success or that everyday occurrences, like injuries, can lead even the best-laid plans astray. These are the typical arguments given in opposition to a proposed salary cap. While I do agree with them, I think the reasons above are even more important.

There is nothing inherent about a salary cap that will guarantee parity or a level-playing field. Exploits will be found and used. When millions upon millions of dollars are at stake, you can pretty much guarantee that. Major League Baseball would be wise not to adopt this idea, and fans of "small market" teams would be wise to encourage their teams to invest in that which does win ballgames: a smart front-office that knows how to get the right players. Until we try that experiment for a few years with all 30 teams, ideas like "salary caps" need to be ignored. - Larry Granillo, Wezen-ball.com

For more in depth Salary Cap coverage, please see the following:

MLB Salary Cap & Salary Floor; Would They Really Help?

There has to be a better way to do this....

MLB franchise owners are rooting for the Yankees to buy a 27th Championship

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    Comments (44)Add Comment
    ...
    written by Jesse Shore, March 03, 2010
    WOW! You guys don't fool around. When you say you are going to debate you ain't kidding! Great stuff guys. Better then anything in print I've ever read on the topic.
    ...
    written by Manny0774, March 03, 2010
    All in all I'd have to say I'm more confused on about the topic now then I was before I read this. Mostly because I learned so many things from this read that I don't know how to properly process it? I don't know if you guys had this stuff in your head or spent hours doing due diligence but this was certainly one 'fact based' debate. Great job.
    Salary Cap in sports,
    written by oktoday, March 04, 2010
    or anywhere else for that matter is a violation of our Const/BR.

    Is this a nation that is supposed to be free, and have the ability to earn legally all that you can, and then end up keeping it, or not?

    To cap a salary is the same thing as ending capitalism.

    Hmm now that I look at it I guess it is OK, BC that is what we are doing any how.
    ...
    written by Espo Kata, March 04, 2010
    Larry, would you be opposed to a salary cap if there was a salary floor too?
    ...
    written by Gene Timmony, March 04, 2010
    I agree with the principals that oktoday has stated however when you look at the example that Danny gave of the Marlins and who they had to give away, there has to be something that can be done. I never saw the names all compiled like that. That's insane.......
    Salary floor
    written by lar @ wezen-ball, March 04, 2010
    Espo Kata: I was hoping to address this in the piece, but I couldn't find the room. I don't think a salary floor would work at all. All it would do is make the cheapest owner over-spend on declining veterans in an effort to meet the floor. Their incentive will be to spend enough money to meet the floor, not to *wisely* spend that money.

    It's like when you want to order an $8 item for delivery and they have a $10 minimum charge. Do you really spend a lot of time figuring out what to spend that extra $2 on, or do you just ask for the first $2 item you can find?
    ...
    written by Edgar Fish, March 04, 2010
    Larry, why are you assuming that "All it would do is make the cheapest owner over-spend on declining veterans in an effort to meet the floor"? Why couldn't it be that some of those Marlins players Danny spoke about could have been kept? Do you really think the Marlins would have signed a Frank Thomas type instead of resigning Miguel Cabrera?
    ...
    written by Al Genesse, March 04, 2010
    You guys had a great article right here on the site written by sports agent Keith Baker about the Marlins recently reaching an agreement with the players' union to increase spending in the wake of complaints the team payroll has been so small as to violate baseball's revenue sharing provisions. The agreement was immediately followed by the resigning of Josh Johnson and then Dan Uggla.

    Having these bottom teams spend more DEFINATELY makes adifference and is perhaps more important then a cap. If fact, if you had to chose only one, a floor would be more effective than a cap.

    Here's the article: http://www.athbaseball.com/201...hnson.html
    ...
    written by Emma6, March 04, 2010
    Larry, wouldn't you have liked to have been able to keep C.C. Sabathia and Carlos Lee? My guess is that if Fielder and Braun can't be resigned that you will change your tune.
    ...
    written by Kevin Aries, March 04, 2010
    I'm not buying it. If Joe Nathan (the highest paid player on the Twins last year) didn't choke the Twins had the Yankees beat. "Joe Nathan made Armando Benitez look clutch": http://athbloggs.blogspot.com/...-look.html
    ...
    written by Favre Dollar Footlongs, March 04, 2010
    Baseball needs a salary cap. It's not about providing parity or stopping big market teams from buying championships. It's about giving small market teams a chance to be successful and... stay successful.

    That's the biggest reason for a salary cap. With the way baseball is right now small market teams can foster strong rosters for 1, maybe 2 years and then that's it. They won't have the money to keep some of these players as we all know that winning not only increases the owners revenue, but it also puts a much bigger price tag on everyone on the team.

    The salary cap would allow the small market teams to work the farm system, build up the team, and keep it in tact for years. It wouldn't create parity because bad teams would still be bad and good teams would still be good. It's almost impossible now for a team like the Pirates or Royals to build up a strong team and once they are good (if it ever happens) to keep any of those players. Yes, bigger markets are going to attract the big name players, but smaller markets don't even have the ability to attract the very good, but not great players, because teams can't take on that type of salary for multiple years.

    The salary cap won't completely change baseball, it will only make it better because the teams with the best organizations will be able to compete every single year instead of having the one great year and then everyone has to leave.
    ...
    written by Puma44, March 04, 2010
    Favre - Agreed. That said you and I both know that the MLPBA will never go for that. I think they should try to work a salary Floor into the system. It would have the same effect and it's realistic to implement because the MLBPA would go for it.
    ...
    written by Michael S, March 04, 2010
    If there was ever a time to implement SOMETHING, now is the time with Michael Weiner taking the help at the head of the MLBPA. He may want to make his mark and perhaps some sort of arrangement can be agreed upon.
    ...
    written by SethK, March 04, 2010
    I would like to have a Yankee fan or other large market team honestly tell me how they would go about competing each year if they were the GM of the Royals.

    I'm listening.
    Pure Awesomeness
    written by CollegeWolf, March 04, 2010
    One of the best ones yet. Thanks everyone, enjoyed very much!
    more on the salary floor
    written by lar @ wezen-ball, March 04, 2010
    You guys are right, the small market teams could use the floor to sign some of the stars they would otherwise have let getaway. If you have to spend the money anyway, why not on the good, young player, right?

    But I still don't see how that necessarily means they're going to get better. The Expos signed a young Vlad Guerrero to a nice contract. The Marlins signed Hanley. The Nats signed Zimmerman. It's not like teams weren't doing this before. It all comes down to how much the team can afford.

    If a small market team can only afford $40 million in payroll right now, and they're forced to spend $50 mil, sure, they'll sign a few guys (good or bad, who knows) and spend $50 mil. But they won't spend more than that because it's already stretching their limits. And then what good is, say, Zack Grienke doing on a team filled with Yuniesky Betancourts?

    Neither a floor nor a cap is going to fix the problems of bad management, and that's the only real way to ensure success.
    ...
    written by lar @ wezen-ball, March 04, 2010
    and Favre, I understand what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent. I just don't think the cap will actually guarantee that.

    Just because you're controlling the amounts teams can spend doesn't mean teams will change how they run their organizations. All the same players will be out there to buy, they'll just be a little cheaper. I actually think that'll be a good reason for some of the fringe small market teams to stop investing in those other means. Why should they spend a little extra money in the DR when they know that Johnny Damon is going to be that much cheaper and easier to pay?

    The reason small market teams follow that model is because it's the one thing they can afford to focus on. And it works because the bigger spenders aren't focusing on the same areas (because they can afford not to). When the small market teams start thinking they can afford to compete for the same free agents, their interest in these other areas - these market inefficiencies, if you will - might dwindle.

    I don't know if I believe that 100%, but it's a pretty real possibility. Especially when you have bad management.
    ...
    written by ElenoreG, March 04, 2010
    This is definitely the biggest issue in the game today. They've addressed the steroid issue and now they have to address this one. MLB runs the risk of losing the fan base of many of the small market teams. Cumulatively, that's a lot of fans.
    ...
    written by Smmy5555, March 04, 2010
    I agree, the large market team need someone to play. If the Royals fans know for certain that year after year there is not a snow balls chance in hell for them to contend then what's the point of fans supporting their team. If that same thing happens ten times then you have the Expos situation X 10 on your hands. Not good.
    ...
    written by Ken Basil, March 04, 2010
    I think the article Al Genesse referenced above is a big deal. Baseball's basic agreement calls for each club to use its revenue sharing receipts in an effort to improve the team and the Marlins were not doing that. Now they are and they resigned Johnson and Uggla. If they had been doing that before, perhaps they could have kept some of their players in the past.
    ...
    written by PaulY53, March 04, 2010
    Danny, while it is true that the Marlins lost all those players it is also true that they got great prospects in return for the, Hanley Rramirez wouldn't even be on the team if they hadn't traded Beckett.
    ...
    written by FairSeat, March 04, 2010
    The Marlins are a poor example. Marlins fans can't complain. They've won two World Series recently which is more then most teams.
    ...
    written by Bill@TDS, March 04, 2010
    Preach it, Larry. Danny's piece is one of the better pro-cap pieces I've ever read, but of course my mind was made up to begin with (it almost always is) and I agree with everything lar says.

    One question for Larry: when I get the "salary floor" question, I used to always give the same answer you did, because you're right: there are going to be years when it just doesn't make sense to spend money on veteran players, so a salary floor will just result in a senseless wealth-shifting from poor front offices to mediocre veterans (and we have enough of that already). But I've been thinking about it. What about a salary and development floor? Your payroll can be whatever makes sense to you, but if it's below a certain amount, you have to satisfy some MLB official that you're spending the difference on player development, domestic or international scouting, or amateur draft bonuses. It seems to me that that would help alleviate the worry that your Pittsburghs and Kansas Cities are pocketing revenue sharing money while eliminating or at least significantly reducing the obvious problems with the salary floor. Even if it's a weak draft crop this year or whatever, there's always got to be something constructive you can do with that money.

    So that wasn't really a question. This is: waddaya think of that? smilies/smiley.gif
    ...
    written by Bill@TDS, March 04, 2010
    I should add: the salary and development floor might also have the incidental effect of making MLB teams' books more open to the public, which I think would be a great thing. Really sick about hearing how the Yankees and Mets are losing money...
    ...
    written by Mike Cardano, March 04, 2010
    Whoa, Bill! We've got way too much reason and logic flying around here today.

    That one is interesting. MLB would come off looking pretty bad if it balked at "showing the fans they were trying to compete."
    ...
    written by Marc Sandi, March 04, 2010
    Larry, I clicked on your Andre Dawson link. Awesome stuff! I suggest you readers take a look after your are done here. (Great debate btw)

    http://www.wezen-ball.com/2010-articles/january/dawsons-blank-check.html
    I have to stop me
    written by Charles Gates, March 04, 2010
    Forcing a bad team to spend money on major league talent would prevent a revitalization like the one we're seeing in Baltimore today. If McPhail had to spend a few extra million on fringe veterans just to hit an aribitrary salary floor, that money wouldn't be available for signing bonuses for the top draft picks they 'won' by finishing last the prior year. Besides, it would take the roster spot from a prospect that might be better off on the ML roster.
    ...
    written by Mavis31, March 04, 2010
    Charles, OR they can pick up a player who is good and win now. Who says that you have to spend the money of fringe veterans?

    You don't have to sign someone for the sake of signing them, you can sign someone good who will help you.

    How would Baltimore have done last year if they were the ones that picked up Teixeria, Sabathia and Burnett?
    Ca'mon - look at the stats
    written by Erik Carol, March 04, 2010
    Look, there is a poll right here on the site voted on by the readers. I just voted and there are now 1,396 votes with 79.3% or 1,107 of the 1,396 saying that MLB should have a salary cap or something similar.

    It's one thing to try to argue when you think the majority is wrong, but at 80%/20% there has got to be something to it. There is enough data in that poll to make the results valid. Arguing against it is tantamount to calling the masses stupid.
    ...
    written by Macy56, March 04, 2010
    I agree with Erik. Those poll statistics are pretty telling of the way the fans feel and what should be done.
    ...
    written by The Common Man, March 04, 2010
    Great job both of you. Like Bill, I'm naturally inclined to agree with Larry. I don't feel like restricting the salaries of millionaires to benefit billionaires. I bristle at the thought that Prince Fielder might have to take a lesser salary than his services are "worth" simply to artificially fit under someone's cap. I don't like the NBA-style trading where teams simply dump extra contracts to "even out" a deal.

    Most of all, I don't think that a salary cap takes away the competitive advantages enjoyed by the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, et al. After all, as Larry points out, limiting the amount a team can spend on salary does not affect the revenue it will bring in. And smart, big-money teams will continue to use the draft and the international market to blow their competitors out of the water when paying out bonuses. If you want to see the Yankees stash the likes of Elston Howard and Vic Power away again, you're welcome to that.

    As teams have become smarter about the money they do spend in recent years (in a world where Orlando Hudson and Felipe Lopez can each be had for less than $3 million), the discrepancy between rich and poor will even out, leaving only the discrepancy between the smart and the Royals.
    @ Mavis31
    written by Charles Gates, March 04, 2010
    How could they have signed all of them if there was a salary cap? Serious question.

    you can sign someone good who can help you
    In the example you cited, you can't sign someone really good, because you probably won't have room under the cap. The reason I suggested fringe veterans is because their service time warrants them a larger deal than a younger player. This becomes a factor because you have a limited number of roster spots. If you have, say, $6MM to spend to hit the floor, you can't go giving that to an unproven player that would have other wise made ~$1.5MM. You'd have to sign a declining veteran instead, which is the exact opposite of rebuilding.
    ...
    written by lar @ wezen-ball, March 04, 2010
    Bill: It's a good idea, and one that I'd probably be happy to hear was implemented. It kind of sounds like that's what MLB is already doing unofficially, considering the reprimand they gave the Marlins this winter.

    Charles makes a great point about forcing teams to spend money that may not be in their best interest. There are many ways that a team can wisely spend it's money, and it's counterproductive to force all of it to be spent in only one way. And, Mavis31, I have to ask, where exactly would Baltimore have gotten all that money to sign Teixeira, Sabathia, and Burnett? Just because there's a floor/cap in place doesn't mean that a team like the O's suddenly has an extra $50 million to spend.

    Erik: are you serious? Just because 1,500 (or even 150,000) baseball fans who know little to nothing about the complicated financial matters of a billion dollar industry think something should be done doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. There's a lot of nuances that need to be considered when implementing such a drastic change, and I get the feeling that most people don't consider them.

    And, really, if all big budget teams ended up like the 2009 Mets or 2000 Orioles - you know, bad - this wouldn't be an issue. Because what we're really complaining about is good management vs bad management. Get better management then, when you can't compete for the World Series, let me know.
    ...
    written by Bill@TDS, March 04, 2010
    Erik and Macy, oh, jeez. I'm no fan of the commissioner or anything, but if baseball were run according to the will of the majority (let alone a perceived majority based on responses on one website)...yikes.
    ...
    written by SaulG, March 04, 2010
    I'm going to echo what the very first person to comment said. WOW what a debate!
    ...
    written by Favre Dollar Footlongs, March 04, 2010
    @wezenball

    Organizations would definitely change. You change the landscape of baseball and add in a salary cap and then the talent pool of players available would increase. Teams could only spend so much so more talented players are available. Because of this the market would be more saturated and prices of salaries would come down. More big name players would be willing to go to smaller teams so then they could receive maximum contracts.

    Like I said, it's not going to change all teams, the teams with bad management will continue to be bad. The problem is for a team like the Pirates, one wrong spending move and it screws up the team for 5 years. That shouldn't be how things are done. The cap would allow small teams to build and if they do have good management and become successful then it would allow them to maintain their success, unlike now when it's eliminated after a year or two.
    ...
    written by Danny Hobrock, March 04, 2010
    @PaulY53 and FairSeat: Good points about the Marlins getting good players in return for their all-stars. However, it's a cycle. They trade their great players for great prospects, who turn into great players and are then traded for more great prospects. IMO the Marlins have one of the better front offices in the league. They do more with less than some teams do with $150 million payrolls.

    Marlins traded Al Leiter to Mets for AJ Burnett in 1998 who left via free agency shortly after the 03 WS win. Traded Antonio Alfonseca to the Cubs for Dontrelle Willis in 2002 who was later traded for prospects. Traded Kevin Brown to the San Diego Padres for Derrek Lee in 1997 who was later traded after 03 win. Etc.

    After WS wins, there's a drop off in the following years when their superstars who got them there are traded or leave via free agency because the Marlins cannot keep their salary on their payroll. FavreDollarFootlongs brings up a great point to this effect that smaller market teams would be able to maintain their success longer with a salary cap.

    They have been on an upwards part of the cycle for the past few years and will stay that way for the opening of their new stadium in 2012.
    ...
    written by slanch, March 04, 2010
    Now, I'll admit being a Red Sox fan makes me a bit more biased about this issue than if I were a Royals fan, BUT, a salary cap is absolutely NOT what MLB needs. What it needs is smart GMs making smart choices and owners who allow their baseball personnel make the decisions and not them.

    Are there major imbalances right now? You betcha. The Sox spend huge amounts and are STILL $60+ million less than the Yankees, but would you say that the Yankees were that markedly a better team ultimately?

    The biggest move has been GMs recognizing that locking up talent early is important, and instead of looking to extend some 34-year-old to a 7 year deal, they instead are locking up 23-year old all stars like Ryan Braun, Justin Upton, Evan Longoria, Zach Greinke, Felix Hernandez, etc. All of those players signed large-money deals and took less than they could have received on the open market, but now they are reasonably signed and can stay with their original franchises for a while, allowing greater chance for those teams to become playoff caliber.

    Salary caps or floors aren't needed in baseball, what they need to do is ignore bud selig and spend in the draft. Teams get in big trouble with Uncle Bud for overpaying slot bonuses in the draft, but offering Jason Kendall $6m is seen as a reasonable move.

    Spending $6m in the draft can net you some of the top prospects coming out, and the cost-value of those picks as they come up and play at lower salaries during their pre-arbitration and pre-free agency years is incredible.

    Baseball needs smart decisions not a salary cap.

    (and a requirement that the revenue sharing has to go BACK into the on-field product or the teams LOSE the money)
    ...
    written by Favre Dollar Footlongs, March 04, 2010
    @slanch

    What your not getting though is the vast differences teams have with decision making.

    First, with small market teams, if they make a bad decision, and everyone makes bad decisions, then it can ruin the franchise for multiple years. With teams like your Red Sox, they can make a bad decision and it won't hurt them because they can cover that mistake with another purchase.It's not about being a better team based on money. It gives you the freedom to fix some of those mistakes. Yes, the teams with better management are going to excel.

    The other thing, which I'll reiterate for the 15th time just to run my mouth again is that the cap allows small market teams to retain players. Okay, the Rays just signed Justin Upton to a long term deal. Just by making it to the WS a year and a half ago, they have been put at a disadvantage because now all their players expect large salaries. They can't sign Longoria, Upton, Crawford, and Zobrist. They already traded Kazmir and even losing Akinori Iwamura was a loss because he tendered a bigger salary from making it to the WS. No matter how great management is they will never have the continual success that large market teams can have.
    ...
    written by Danny Hobrock, March 04, 2010
    @FavreDollarFootlongs This is a very interesting approach to this subject, and a very convincing one if you ask me.
    ...
    written by Bill@TDS, March 04, 2010
    @FDF: you're right (except the part about Justin Upton and the Rays; You're getting your Uptons confused). I hope no one disputes that teams with high payrolls have huge advantages over teams with low payrolls. The problem is that a salary cap (in addition to being fundamentally unfair to the players) won't fix that disparity.

    Say the salary cap is set at $150 million; what you've just done is, you've put $50 million back in the Yankees' pockets. Now, I think we all know that they're just not going to keep $50 mil in cash lying around; they're going to spend as much as they think they can spend in order to win. So within, say, a year (or maybe instantly), every agent of every amateur player realizes that the Yankees have a ton of extra money to play with, and their bonus demands go through the roof. Put a cap on draftee bonuses (another terrible idea that further punishes young players who make pennies on the dollar of what they're worth anyway)? They'll go to the international markets. They'll keep finding ways to take advantage of that huge economic edge they have. There's no stopping it, at least from that end.

    I'd love for the Rays to be able to keep Crawford and the Padres to keep Gonzalez and the (especially) Twins to keep Mauer. But (1) it's just fundamentally wrong to go about that by placing artificial limits on how much those players are allowed to be paid for their professional services; (ii) salary caps have the opposite effect -- look how often star players in the NFL move around because their teams can't fit them under the cap anymore; and (iii) without huge, sweeping changes that would turn MLB into the arguably-moderately-more-competitive mess that is the NFL, it just wouldn't work anyway.
    ...
    written by lar @ wezen-ball, March 04, 2010
    Small market teams do have a problem retaining their talent, and it is a problem. I still don't see how a salary cap or a floor will necessarily fix this, though. If the cap is too high (and it's pretty easy to get high), then the small market teams won't be able to reach it. If it's so low that everyone can reach it, then they're actually competing with more teams for the same services. Plus, a bad owner or a dumb front office can still make mistakes.

    To me, it always comes back to that. A smart front office can compete in any environment. A smart front office will figure out how to sign Evan Longoria to a 6 yr, $17.5 million contract, or how to trade Carlos Lee and Francisco Cordero before they get too expensive. These things can be done. Yes, it's tough that they have to do it against teams with built-in advantages, but, like Bill says, capping salaries isn't going to get rid of that.
    ...
    written by Favre Dollar Footlongs, March 05, 2010
    This is how a salary cap or floor fixes the problem.

    There's a salary cap in place...say $130 million.
    There's a salary floor in place...say $65 million

    With this, immediately salaries will decrease for players. Only 6 teams last year were below 65 million. There were 3 teams above $130. Even changing the floor and cap to those figures will decrease overall payrolls in baseball by nearly $25-30 million. That will decrease salaries. With the capped payroll teams like the Yanks and Red Sox can't just grab players and pay exhoribant amounts of money to them. They will actually have to have good GM's for once who make smart decisions. The very good, but not great players will still be looking for sizeable contracts and the larger market teams won't give them up now because they have to use their resources more wisely. Therefore, these players can get better contracts from smaller market teams. This is where teams can keep their players. It would no longer be where the player would just leave to grab the stacks of cash. He would have less of a market for a high salary and a larger market for a more legitimate salary. Because of this the hometown has the advantage since he is already there.

    This will also make payrolls more in a median range so some lower payrolls might be willing to pay more and therefore smaller market teams would go after better players because they won't feel outmatched every time. This would only help increase the spreading of the talent pool.

    Again, it's still going to come down to teams making smart decisions, but it gives them many more options to make the smart decisions they need to make.

    ...
    written by Mike Cardano, March 05, 2010
    "With this, immediately salaries will decrease for players" - That is certainly true and that is precisely why the union will never agree to it.

    There have been a few unique suggestions here describing ways around that issue but if that's what you are hung up on, you will be eternally disappointed.

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