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  Follow us as each week as our best writers from around the Bloguin Network take aim at each other and square off on anything and everything baseball from "who was better, Mays or Mantle" to "Should MLB have a salary cap?"
Pick a side and agree or disagree. Take part in the debate by posting a comment giving your own opinion. There are no holds barred and nothing is held back in the "The Great Bloguin Baseball Debate."
Today's Debaters are:
Gene Zarnick of Favre Dollar Footlongs
Slanch of The Slanch Report
Today's Topic is: Barry Bonds or Albert Pujols? Take your pick....
 Barry Bonds was better than Albert Pujols is....
By Gene Zarnick, Favre Dollar Footlongs: The Annoyances of Players, Fans, the Media, and of Course Brett Favre
Everyday there is a new debate amongst baseball fans about who the best player ever is, was, or will be. People will compare hitting stats, base running stats, defensive stats, or any other new stat they can come up with to try and conger up enough information to back their opinion. I can compare all those stats too, but to me there is no comparison. Barry Bonds is the best player ever to play the game of baseball.
Let's get the steroid issue out of the way. I'm not going to try and defend him by saying he's never tested positive, because I, just like everyone else knows that he definitely took steroids. I will however defend the fact that no one during the steroid era dominated like Barry did. I think most people are blinded to the fact of how amazing and untouchable Barry Bonds was over the five year period of 2000-2004. Remember one thing; Barry wasn't the only one taking PED's. In a time where we can assume that over 50% of player's were in some shape or form taking something to be bigger, stronger, or faster, Barry not only excelled, but he was the most feared player to ever play the game.
Baseball's two greatest players went from one extreme to another. Before Barry, Ruth was the greatest, but he played in a watered down period of baseball that did not have the greatest of competition because of segregation. Flip to the fact that in this day and age we not only have the greatest competition, the most abundant amount of information telling you what to pitch, when to pitch, and where to pitch to every player, and the most athletic and physically prepared players ever, whether it be with steroids or not. The last decade of baseball is a time where you truly must be one of the best in the world just to make the roster. Barry Bonds took over this era.
Now time for a couple accomplishments (courtesy of karemar.com).
1. Holds record for most MVP awards (7) and consecutive MVP awards (4) (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
2. Holds records for most home runs in a season (73)
3. Holds records for most walks in a career (2,512)
4. Holds record for consecutive seasons with 30 homeruns (13).
5. Most player of the month selections - 13 (next closet is 8)
6. Only player in 500 home run and 500 stolen base club
7. One of four players in 40-40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases)
8. Holds record for most consecutive seasons with .600 slugging percentage or higher (8)
9. 5-time SF Giants Player of the Year (1998, 2001-04)
10. 14-Time All-Star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
11. 7-Time Baseball America NL All-Star OF (1993, 1998, 2000-04)
12. 3-Time Major League Player of the Year (1990, 2001, 2004)
13. 3-Time Baseball America MLB Player of the Year (2001, 2003-04)
14. 8-Time Gold Glove winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-98)
15. 12-Time Silver Slugger winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-97, 2000-04)
16. Led the Major Leagues in home runs (1993, 2001)
17. Led the NL in batting average (2002, 2004)
18. Led the NL in on base percentage (1991-93, 1995, 2001-04, 2006)
19. Led the Major Leagues in slugging percentage (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
20. Led the Major Leagues in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
21. Led the Major Leagues in on base percentage (1992, 2001-04)
22. Led the NL in runs (1992)
23. Led the NL in RBIs (1993)
24. Led the NL in walks (1992, 1994-97, 2000-04, 2006)
25. Led the NL in intentional walks (1992-98, 2002-04, 2006)
26. Led the NL in runs created (1992-93, 2001-02, 2004)
27. Led the Major Leagues in total bases (1993, with 365)
28. Led the Major Leagues in runs created (1993, 2001-02, 2004)
29. Led the NL in games (1995)
30. Led the NL in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
31. Led the NL in at bats per home run (1992-93, 1996, 2000-04)
32. 3-Time NL Hank Aaron Award winner (2001-02, 2004)
33. Led the Major Leagues in batting average (2002, with .370)
You don't call that the most complete player? Barry is that. He has numerous awards in hitting, running, and fielding. He has accomplishments that are far and away above anyone else and probably records no one will touch. He is the only member of the 500/500 club. Most career home runs, most home runs in a season, most career MVP's with 7. The next closet only has 3.
The craziest stat ever that will never, ever, be touched again is the fact that in 2004 Barry Bonds reached base 376 times. That's not the crazy part. The crazy part is that he only had 373 at-bats. That's what happens when you are walked 263 times, including 120 intentional walks. He also has 668 career intentional walks, which is more than #2 Hank Aaron and #3 Willie McCovey combined.
I know the debate is Barry against Albert Pujols and I haven't really compared the two, but there's a reason for that. There is no comparison. Albert Pujols has one gold glove a stunning 61 career stolen bases. As an overall baseball player he is nowhere near Barry Bonds.
Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player to ever play the game. As a complete player he dominated all aspects of the game during a time where so many players did everything they could to have any sort of advantage.
There's no comparison, but compare all you want. During a time where there were more advantages than ever before, the end result is will forever be advantage Barry. - Gene Zarnick of Favre Dollar Footlongs
 Albert Pujols is better than Barry Bonds was....
By Slanch, The Slanch Report - Presenting the best in off-beat sports news, mainstream sports idiocy, the choicest Doppelgangers and always plenty of baseball. Oh and hot chicks, lots of hot chicks.
In 2001, with a grand total of 3 games above the High A level, Tony La Russa and the Cardinals headed north with a remarkable rookie on the Opening Day roster. In his first season Albert Pujols played in 161 of 162 games, splitting time between left field, right field, first and third en route to a .329/.403/.610 slash line and an OPS+ of 157(!!!) as a mere 21 year old. He won the Rookie of the Year, a Silver Slugger and finished 4th behind Bonds, Sosa and Luis Gonzalez in the MVP balloting, not too shabby for a 13th round draft pick with 1 year in the minors and all of 15 PA in AAA ball.
He was just getting started.
In the 8 full seasons since Albert has cemented himself as the best in the world and one of the most dominating players of all time. The most similar players to Pujols through the age of 29 include Jimmie Foxx, Hank Aaron, Lou Gehrig, Ken Griffey, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Mel Ott, Hank Greenberg and Orlando Cepeda, that's 9 Hall of Famers and considering his age, his lack of any major injuries and his consistency, there is little doubt that Albert will join their ranks.
In only his 3rd season Albert won the batting title, putting up a .359 average in addition to leading the league in hits (212), doubles (51), total bases (394) and runs (137), all this to go along with 43 homers and 124 RBI, oh yeah, and that tidy little 187 OPS+. That's RIDICULOUS. Still, Albert finished second behind Barry Bonds for the MVP that season. Starting his career in the midst of the steroids era, where players like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al were juicing and putting up insane numbers, Pujols, as far as we know, is completely clean. His name has never been linked to any steroids or PED situation and he has vehemently denied ever using anything illegal. When the All Star game was held in St. Louis last summer Pujols went one step further, telling reporters that he'd take a test every day if need be and that if he ever tested positive he'd pay back the St. Louis Cardinals every cent they paid him.
Since 2004 there has been (semi-)stringent testing and Pujols' name has never popped up as a violator. The Alex Rodriguez, David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez cases last year all showed that the Commissioner's Office isn't going out of its way to protect the game's biggest stars, if Albert was breaking the rules he'd have been outed by now.
That's off the field though, it is what he does between the lines that cements Albert as the best player in the world. In his first 4 seasons Pujols could easily have won the MVP award without argument, losing each time to Barry Bonds who was making his assault on the record books thanks to BALCO's chemistry labs as opposed to Albert who -- presumably -- was doing it clean.
When Albert arrived in the Majors his position was unclear, while not a stellar fielder at 3rd, he was more than passable in the outfield and at first. He worked extremely hard on his defense, earning a Gold Glove at first 2005. When the Cardinals finally settled on leaving Pujols at first he rounded himself into an excellent defender, not flashy, he makes all the plays he should and rarely makes a bad play. That is the beauty of Albert's game, he's like a baseball robot, designed to do everything perfectly. Not a swift baserunner, Pujols is ALWAYS in the right place, if there's an extra base he can get, he gets it.
Of course, Pujols' greatest value comes at the plate, it is rare these days to find a power hitter who can routinely put up 40 home runs a season, to find one who also hits in the .340s and puts up a 1.000+ OPS without breaking a sweat is practically unheard of. With a career 821:584 BB:K ratio, Pujols is not your run of the mill slugger, he has patience and a superior eye at the plate. Since striking out 93 times his rookie season, Albert hasn't struck out more than 69 times in a season since.
There is no denying Bonds' abilities and if we were just looking at Bonds earlier pre-steroids career, the argument is closer, but while it is true that Bonds dominated the steroids era like no one else in history it still rings false. If you stack the deck and then keep winning that doesn't show that you're the best, it shows that you cheated the best. Bonds' seasons were otherworldly video game numbers, but they were built only through steroids. Was he the best player on steroids? Absolutely, there's no doubt about it. But so what. He still was cheating, he still was using (needing) steroids and other PEDs in order to create those numbers, he might as well have just gone up to the plate with a metal bat.
Bonds' arrived in the Majors also at the age of 21, but he had played for 3 years in college at Arizona State and went to the College World Series, so his experience with higher level pitching was advanced. Or at least it should have been. It's fair to say that the caliber of competition Bonds faced was more than a smidge better than what Pujols faced at Maple Woods Community College. However, when Bonds arrived in the Majors it took him until his 5th season in Pittsburgh before he started to live up to his potential. In his first 4 seasons Bonds' OPS was an even .800, good certainly, but compared to Pujols' 1.036 in the same time-frame it looks absolutely pedestrian.
Through his first 9 seasons, Pujols AVERAGES a .334/.427/.628 slash line with 43 homers a season, THAT'S NUTS! Even accounting for normal rates of decline, Pujols is on his way to one of the greatest careers in the history of the game. Bonds over his first 9 full seasons averaged a .293/.403/.557 line with 30 homers a year, obviously nothing to sneeze at -- and it should be noted he was averaging 34 steals a year and won 5 straight Gold Gloves -- but again, compared to Pujols, are merely good. From his 10th season on, Bonds' numbers started to really take off, not coincidentally soon thereafter is the presumed time he began using steroids.
Pujols has never hit less than 32 home runs in a season, provided he puts up his normal outrageously amazing numbers -- and he'd BETTER for my fantasy team! -- he'll become the first player in Major League history with 10 seasons of 30+ home runs, 100+ RBI and a .300+ average. Think about that. 10 STRAIGHT years! Bonds certainly had the power, and the batting eye, he was regularly above 100+ walks per season, but he only started to put up his insane batting averages AFTER he started using steroids and became such a ridiculous masher that teams HAD to pitch around him, even with bases empty. Bonds' .370 in 2002 was more a result of his getting nearly 200 walks and getting so few opportunities to hit than anything else. Is that a part of the Bonds story? Certainly, but it never would have happened had he NOT taken steroids.
While Bonds was achieving better living through chemistry, Pujols was/is putting up numbers that stagger the mind. Not since Rogers Hornsby or Stan Musial have the Cardinals seen a talent like Pujols, and they were two of the greatest players in the history of the game. Bonds' numbers are amazing, but they aren't real, he never could have achieved them without artificial aid. Had Bonds never taken steroids, this argument might be closer, but his use of PEDs makes it nearly impossible to compare; forget apples and oranges, it's apples and jet planes.
Bonds was one of the greats in the game, his power/speed combination, plus his skill playing left field should make him a Hall of Famer. It's likely that he never gets in though. Meanwhile, Pujols is putting up better numbers than Bonds' early career (minus the steals of course) while playing a (slightly) harder position on the field and doing it with rigorous testing standards.
I'm not one of those people who thinks that the steroids era shouldn't count, the numbers happened, people still had to perform, but if given the chance, I'm always going to pick the player who did it clean over the one who cheated. There's simply no way Bonds puts up his late career Brobdingnagian numbers without Victor Conti and BALCO's labs, his insane OPS' and OPS+ were only possible because of the drugs he put into his body.
As it stands, Bonds has the advantage because he had 12 more seasons in the Majors than Pujols, but when Albert's phenomenal career finally comes to a close his numbers are going to be nearly as monstrous as Bonds' and most importantly, WITHOUT the stink of cheating that surrounds Bonds. Bonds' most incredible seasons -- besides his ridiculous 1990 year where he hit 33 homers, stole 52 bases and won his first MVP -- all occurred AFTER he started taking the juice and so can't be looked at in the same manner. Give Albert steroids and I wouldn't be surprised to see him match Bonds' 73 homers and watch him march up the career home run list. Instead, Albert plays in a time where those drugs are not allowed, instead he's left to rely solely on his own natural talent, fortunately, it's more than enough.
If you were just to look at the numbers, Bonds has the edge, but numbers don't tell the full story, the steroids are a part of his career and something that can't be ignored. How much they impacted his game will never be fully known, but he wasn't hitting 73 homers BEFORE he took them, that much is clear. Bonds in 22 MLB seasons finished with some of the most impressive stats a player has ever accumulated, and it's a bit difficult to compare those to a player who has only 9 seasons of data so far, but when all is said and done, when Pujols leaves the game he'll have equally staggering numbers and there won't be any taint behind them. Sure, Bonds has the 7 MVPs, but they were fraudulently won, had Bonds not cheated Pujols would have won at least 2 more, putting him at 5 right now instead of only 3 and Albert still has a long ways to go.
Oh, and there's that one other thing that Pujols has over Bonds, a World Series ring. Unlike Bonds, when it counted the most, Pujols stepped up, Pujols has 13 home runs, averages .322/.431/.578 and personally demolished Brad Lidge's confidence for 2 seasons in his 12 series in 6 seasons postseason career. Bonds in his career had ONE postseason where he wasn't absolutely terrible, 2002, when he led the Giants to the World Series. Of course that was also at the height of his steroid use -- Bonds' averaged in the postseason .245/.433/.503. Further, Pujols has been playing in October 6 of his 9 years, as compared to Bonds' who only made it to October 7 times out of 22 seasons. Of course, the wild card and expanded division play means there's more opportunities, but even still, Pujols, almost singlehandedly has led the Cardinals to October while Bonds wasn't able to do the same.
Barry's beginning to his career was impressive, Pujols' has been unprecedented. By the time Albert retires, provided he stays healthy, he'll enter the rarefied Olympian heights of Mays, Griffey, Aaron, Ruth and yes, Bonds too. Unlike Bonds though, he'll be celebrated, rightly, for his talent and skill that enabled his success, not for the chemicals he injected into his body. Bonds was mighty, Albert will be mightier. - Slanch, The Slanch Report
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